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- Eugene J FineResearcherDear Steve, That is outstanding news! Interestingly, I suspect that you may have been responsive to a strict ketogenic diet because your prostate cancer was so aggressive. By this I mean that it was so PET avid. Many less aggressive prostate cancers are not glycolytic/glucose-dependent, I.e. can metabolize fatty acids and ketone bodies as fuels. In any event, we wish you continued good health and thank you very much for sharing your news with us!! Best, Gene and RichardSep 24, 20180
- Steve StephensonStrict Keto while taking chemo Summer 2016 and after did stabilize sites, but did not make them disappear. The sites disappeared only after I went full carnivore, i.e., zero carb. The folks in Hungary have success when their patients go on carnivore diets, too. BTW, I mostly eat red meat, thus triggering all the benefits Dr Bikman showed in his insulin / glucagon presentation, including ketogenesis and all the important factors also present in fasting. Has anybody thought of doing a study of red fatty meat carnivory as a (adjuvant) treatment for cancer?Sep 24, 20180
- Eugene J FineResearcherThanks for the additional remarks Steve. We're doing a ketogenic diet cancer study right now, although it can't be described as zero carbohydrates. I'm not sure that even full carnivore is zero carbs in view of muscle glycogen, but I need to refresh my knowledge of the glycogen content in red meat and whether it withstands cooking. Gene and RichardSep 24, 20180
- Steve StephensonDear Drs Fine and Feinman, My PET scans seem to indicate that I have CURED my "aggressive high-volume metastatic prostate cancer" with the lowest possible insulin/glucagon ratio induced by a completely non-plant foods diet, i.e., carnivore. "CURED" means all the metastasized sites (e.g., along my spine, skull, and hip) have DISAPPEARED on my latest PET scan! Just to hedge my bets I'll continue my carnivore diet! My health history summary: https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/cancer-in-a-remission/24706/26?u=sks23cu -SteveSep 24, 20180
- Don Mc LaughlinMy 4 year old daughter has a massive Ganglioneuroma tumor which is a benign and less threatening version of a Neuroblastoma tumor .I found my oncologist very indifferent and doubtful to the effect of diet or alternative medicines.However ,I began to understand that he deals with child cancers daily that are often there from birth and he is also dealing with a crisis primarily and reserves little headspace for preventative measures. Even if a Keto diet could have had some influence, the practicalities of giving a newborn and toddlers a low carb diet is often unrealistic.What does arise from that though is the question about the correlation between expectant mothers on a keto diet and the prevalence of child cancer. I also am curious about what the effect of a keto diet might be on my daughters benign Ganglioneuroma tumor. The reason being that it's position has rendered it inoperable given the risks involved.In the absence of any other options to address her condition I'll be definitely trying the Keto diet.I see you've reached your target but I'd be very interested in raising funds to support this research program should the opportunity arise again .Great work!May 13, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherYou've raised a number of very interesting questions. First, as to the matter of a ganglioneuroma, I don't know the pathology well enough to even to hazard an educated guess as to how it may respond to a ketogenic diet. Our current experience with how ketogenic diets work in cancers has to do with a) their dependence on glycolysis and b) their generally hypoxic microenvironment (not unrelated to the glycolysis). Cancers generally have these characteristics, but I'm quite a bit less certain about benign tumors including ganglioneuroma. The mechanisms that we believe to be in play that permit ketogenic diets to inhibit cancers include a) inhibition of insulin secretion (since insulin receptors are often membrane bound on cancer membranes, so lowering insulin may help; b) secondarily, that ketosis, from strict insulin inhibition, may have additional inhibitory effects in some cancers. Why don't you email me directly at eugene.fine@einstein.yu.edu.May 13, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherThank you. We couldn't have done it without all of you.May 03, 20160
- Ruth KritzerBackerWOW - congrats!!!May 03, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherMy colleague and sartorial expert Richard is in the T-shirt department, so I'll defer to him on this one. GeneMay 02, 20160
- Gregg SheehanBackerI still haven't seen my t-shirt I bought when I got the book. :)May 02, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherI should add that the rate at which our results will yield something useful is likely to be slow. This is simply because we have not yet found that ANY new experiment in the laboratory has gone simply. It's in the nature of experimental work that we must expect the unexpected. When things go well, we must repeat the experiment to be sure. Etcetera.May 01, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherI agree with Richard's remarks completely. I'd also like to add to what he's said. Some biochemical details that might suggest ketone body actions as a metabolic inhibitor of cancers depend on more recent discoveries. In particular, the nature and behavior of uncoupling proteins, and especially UCP2, has been gradually uncovered only in the past dozen years or so. The relationship that this might have to inhibiting ketone body metabolism in cancers was not suspected, even though overexpression of UCP2 in cancers had been described. And so forth. Sometimes I think both Richard and I feel that what we've been studying was based on the luck of following premature hunches. We're still not certain that our cell culture findings will have clinical relevance, though we remain cautiously optimistic that they will.May 01, 20160
- celeste kelseyBackerWhere can we learn the details of the study?May 01, 20160
- Candace X. MooreBackerHard to understand why these fundamental studies haven't already been done. When will you have results? Sounds like this could be a very fruitful research directions. Best wishes.Apr 30, 20160
- Richard David FeinmanResearcherWe already have some results as described in some of the text here but there are several answers as to why they haven't been done before, the main one being that we humans don't always see the obvious and we are subject to our limited experience. What is it about ketone bodies? We learn about it in the context of starvation and untreated type 1 diabetes which doesn't happen much and when it does happen is threatening. But how much of the time were our ancestors hunting and gathering and how much starving or at least on really extended fasts? The idea that the biochemistry of ketone body metabolism was as fundamental to our evolution as glycolysis and the TCA cycle is not something that we think about a lot or, for some of us, is a thing that sits in the back of our mind for years until we suddenly realize it is a really big deal. Took me way longer than some people. There is also the fact that medicine which exerts a major influence in the research is about drugs. The mind set of medicine is that drugs are about science and and diet is about "lifestyle" which is not serious. Thanks for your backing and we think your optimism is justified. It is precisely because we think that it is sure to be fruitful that we are persisting in the face of limited support from the usual sources of funding. We don't know the answer but I always tell students is that the best research project is one where you know you'll get definite results.May 01, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherWe're following our noses on the data, and the data appear to consistently spell that's it's plausible for ketone bodies to metabolically inhibit the energy production and proliferation of many cancers. So we keep on following. If ketosis can complement other therapies by enhancing the overall efficacy, it can then simultaneously lower doses and toxicities-- a double benefit.Apr 28, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherDear Stefano, Thank you for your interest. Gene and RichardApr 28, 20160
- stefano natellaBackergreat project!Apr 28, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherDear Mike, Dear Mike, Thanks very much. Your generous help and supportive comments mean a lot.. We've gotten some surprisingly consistent results out of diverse cancer lines, so the possibility of treatment by targeting a common metabolic mechanism becomes more plausible all the time. Gene and RichardApr 25, 20160
- Michael EadesBackerI'm proud to help sponsor such groundbreaking work. What could be more important than determining the mechanism for ketone body inhibition of cancer cell growth? It's a pity that the NIH isn't throwing money at work such as this.Apr 25, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherThe only systematic study of patients on a ketogenic diet in cancer (as far as I know) was our RECHARGE trial of 10 patients with advanced cancers (see our link to this study in this Experiment.com)-- and 5 patients with the greatest extent of ketosis and either stable disease or partial remission after 28 days on this diet. Patients with limited ketosis had progressive disease. But we didn't have the funding/resources to continue to follow these patients beyond this 28 day period. 3 of the patients said they would continue to stay on the ketogenic diet, but we had no way of monitoring their diet to see if they were actually compliant and in fact when I spoke to them, they said they had relaxed the diet and were now eating bread and other carbohydrates. In short we don't have results of what real ketosis does past 28 days. Wish we did.Mar 26, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherLow carbohydrate diets may not deprive tumors of glucose directly because blood glucose concentrations on low carb fall, but usually not out of the normal range (and cancers are good at pirating glucose from the blood in this range). It may be more likely that a) ketone bodies inhibit metabolism of glucose (the "Randle cycle"); b) and in cancer cells this matters because respiratory metabolism of KB's by cancer cells doesn't result in compensatory ATP because of overexpression of UCP2. This is still a work in progress of course, so we're excited but not yet ready to bet the farm on it.Mar 24, 20160
- Guy-André PelouzeBackerMy first impressions of keto diet is that patients go out of the chemo week or days more sthenic and with less side effects. there are papers inthi trend in the literature. For the fate of solid extracranial tumors I never observed a tremendous effect. Even if we know that solid tumors are different from cell cultures of the same tumors it is obvious that this study is important in order to document any shift in the metabolism of these cells when deprived of glucose.Mar 24, 20160
- Guy-André PelouzeBackerCongratulations for working on this project. It is frequently considered as controversial but: The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement -- Karl PopperMar 24, 20160
- Ivor CumminsBackerHit the target and rising on through - great job guys ! Looking forward to seeing the results from this important research... :-) IvorMar 24, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherThanks again. We're thrilled. Gene and RichardMar 24, 20160
- Andrea ShieldsBackerAll the very best for your research! I'm so happy to support research in this area. So much therapeutic potential. I'm using a VLCD/ketogenic diet (with intermittent fasting & caloric restriction) to recover from my chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia. It's working, in combination with microbiome & immune system support.Mar 24, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherHannah, Your constant interest and support has been sustaining. We've been thrilled too by the rapid positive response that we've been getting from so many people. Gene and RichardMar 23, 20160
- Hannah SutterBackerI am thrilled to help you with your project.Mar 23, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherHi Robert, I've just glanced at your linked reference so far. It raises many interesting questions. My first instinct is always whether I think the model is appropriate. (I have a constitutional bone to pick with rodent models, 'though we have little choice but to use them for reasons of expense. For one thing anti-angiogenic therapies in humans rarely work when given as solo agents. But the idea remains interesting. I'll definitely need to take a closer look. Thanks.Mar 22, 20160
- Robert CoberlyBackerGood luck, may this proceed as planned. BTW, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26990457 is interesting. LAC/HCO3 in a tumor model, with MRS used to show in vivo a shift from glycolytic toward ox phos metabolism under a anti-angiogenic therapy.Mar 22, 20160
- Richard David FeinmanResearcherThanks. I will have to read the paper carefully but are you suggesting that the lactate/bicarbonate ratio could give us an experimental handle on the Warburg effect?Mar 23, 20160
- Rose Nunez SmithBackerJust want to let you know that the $100 increase in my pledge is actually from Willeke Barens, a woman in the Netherlands whose payment methods couldn't go through on the site for some reason. I'm happy to forward her donation to this worthy project.Mar 20, 20160
- Richard David FeinmanResearcherWe are very grateful to Willeke. Email address would allow us to thank her personally.Mar 20, 20160
- Rose Nunez SmithBackerI think this email addy is still good: dutchwolfhound@xs4all.nlMar 23, 20160
- ChrisThank you Rose!Mar 23, 20160
- Melissa SaucedoBackerI wish i could do more, but I'm so happy to donate to this cause!Mar 19, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherDear Melissa, You've done so much already; just to know that you and others like you are out there and wiling to support our work is so helpful to us, Sincerely, Gene and RichardMar 19, 20160
- Eugene J FineResearcherDear Dr. Yee, Thank you so much for your interest and your support. This line of work has engaged me for more than 10 years now and the going has often been quite slow, so your support means a lot to me.Mar 19, 20160
- Pamela YeeBackerHello! I'm an MD and been doing integrative oncology for some time. I have been so interested in your work, Dr Seyfried's as well and have been counseling patient on using the ketogenic diet recently. Of course we all need more data but I have been starting to steer patients in this direction for the last few months. I really hope to meet you in person some time. I will spread your work on my FB page... Good luck.Mar 18, 20160
- Ruth KritzerBackerHave you had any feedback from those patients who took your advice and went on a ketogenic diet?Mar 26, 20160
- Pamela YeeBackerI have several patients doing it now and I guide and monitor them through it. Still too early to report feedback yet although one case where that is the primary method of treatment (CLL) the WBC counts have decreased significantly.Mar 26, 20160